According to James Wagner of the New York Times, Tim Tebow has been working with Craig Wallenbrock to improve his offense next season.
Wallenbrock’s claim to fame is helping rework J.D. Martinez‘s swing to help the outfielder add more loft and drive with balls off his bat. With Wallenbrock’s help, Martinez has gone from a released player to an All Star looking for a massive free agent deal this offseason.
Wallenbrock is also working with Mets center fielder Juan Lagares.
In addition to the news Tebow is working hard on his swing, Sandy Alderson reported the Mets have yet to decide where Tebow will be assigned to begin the 2018 season.
Last year, Tebow played for both Columbia and St. Lucie. Both affiliates would draw record attendance figures, which was largely attributed to Tebow’s presence on the roster.
You can say what you want about Tebow, but to do what he did last year after being away from the game for 10 years is remarkable and a testament to how hard he works. I believe he will start the year again in St., Lucie and then get a mid year promotion to Bingo.
Obviously for selfish reasons I want Tebow to please stay away from my Lucie Mets so I can watch them in peace.
Although honestly anyway if theyre pretending he’s a prospect at age 30 in his second pro season he should start in AA as a natural progression.
I’m not sure what was remarkable about it. I’m not judging him yet, but let’s face it: he put up poor numbers and performed badly, for the most part.
I don’t think last year means anything or can be called anything. It was a starting point with no valid basis for forming any judgements one way or the other,
No one disagrees that he is a hard worker. But he didn’t just jump into the season cold. He spent an entire year getting personalized coaching from not one, but two former major leaguers before he ever signed with the Mets. He followed that up with nine weeks, or equal to 40% of a season in the Mets fall instructional league and the Arizona Fall League.
Its a very short learning curve, for sure. But he also went on to play against MUCH younger competition that was of a lower level than what he’d faced in the AFL.
Anything good he accomplished can be attributed to his vastly more advanced physical, mental, and emotional maturity than his competition.
And any short-comings he showed can be attributed to his lack of experience in developing his baseball skills.
There’s no precedent for this, so nothing against which to gauge it. There’s just no way to assess whether what he did was remarkable, normal, or poor.
At this point, what you’re saying makes perfect sense.
But in his case, it has to come down to what they see out of him in spring training. Let’s face it: he under-performed in single-A St Lucie last year (both levels). Its still up to him to demonstrate whether he’s a real prospect or not.
(And I think the Mets org still sees him as more of an experiment, for now).
There’s no negative right now for Mets to have him in the organization. OF prospects are slim. He’s not necessarily taking ABs from anyone. But for example in 2017 a lot of these college OF bats didnt shine in columbia or lucie but still they should also see a progession. At this point tebow needs to just bring the crowds to Bingo although perhaps mets know there won’t be much fanfare up north as there’s been down here in Florida and SEC country.
Let’s call a spade a spade, he puts butts in seats. He did wonders for tickets sales for my flies and people ate him up but selfish I’m glad he’s gone.
Right on track to be in Syracuse in 2019
To be fair, after the move to PSL he had a real hot month and then 6 weeks where he was terrible. During the hot streak at PSL the NY beat writers were actually admitting maybe they were wrong.
If he starts at PSL he will likely be there with Zanon, Strom, Berrios, Cone and maybe Brodey. Other than Brodey, is Tebow really taking away at bats from a sure fire major leaguer? Chances are other than Brodey none of them get past AAA. Brodey gets a longer shot because of where he was drafted.
Nessim, Speaking of prospects, I see Winningham, Rasquin, Gimenez and Tiberi as the PSL infield with Carpio and Woodmansie as the backups. Love to hear your view on all four full season infield projections.
I’m not sure what you’re going for, here. It seems to me that you’re arguing with someone else, or putting other people’s words into my mouth.
With regards to his hot month. Yes, he had one hot month. So what? Its a five month season. He was terrible the other four. That, to me, is underperforming. I don’t think “underperformed” is a mean or critical way of describing it, and I don’t know how anyone can characterize it any differently.
Regarding his place with the Mets, I never said there was anything wrong with his being here and I never said he was taking at bats away from anyone.
As for the NY beat writers, they said what they said when he was hot. I wonder what they might say if they looked at what he did in those last six weeks. But they won’t. Because they don’t cover the minors that closely.
If today were March 30th, 2018 and single-A existed in a vacuum, I’d say Winnigham, Rasquin, Woodmansee as starters in PSL, with the rest of the IF being rounded out by the less exciting guys like Paez, Sergakis, and Sienna.
Tiberi is a wild card because he had only a week or so last year. So we really have NO clue where he is in his development.
My preference would be to start Gimenez in Columbia with an eye towards promoting him in mid-season, and Carpio still has something to prove.
Gimenez is still very young, has already skipped a lot of levels, and his body is still smallish. And let’s be real: he held his own, but he didn’t really thrive. He didn’t drive the ball much and had a sub-.700 OPS. It is worth noting that Gimenez had a very strong July followed by a bad August. Its possible that July is his new normal, and the August fade might have been fatigue from playing a much longer season. If thats the case, or if he shows up in camp 15 lbs bigger and is smashing doubles all over the place, then maybe that changes the equation and he goes to PSL. But right now, today, I would give him more time to grow into where he is rather than pushing him up again.
But Its early, and some decisions are going to have to wait until the Mets see what some of these guys look like in spring training. Another problem is that the Bing infield is so under-manned that some player(s) who should return to PSL next year will be forced up.
I’ve also read quotes from a couple of coaches in the Mets org who say they like Woodmansee’s bat a lot. They think he hits the ball hard, and can/will really drive the ball a lot once he gets 100% healthy. Bingo doesn’t have a shortstop right now and will almost certainly have to bring in a free agent again. If Woodmansee starts off hot, then he might get moved up early with Gimemez getting bumped to Lucie to take his place.
Gimenez’ stats show a very good tour of Columbia and as a top prospect, he should move up and let others make room for him.
He also was hurt in early August by a HBP, and in fact got hit 8 times in August alone. His splits:
Until 7/31:
.287/.346/.370/.717
285 PA, 16 BB, 50 K’s, 11/17 stealing, 8 HBP
In August:
.204/.345/.290/.635
114 PA, 12 BB (nice!), 11 K’s, 3/5 stealing, 8 HBP
This kid deserves a promotion and let the others earn one first.
It was remarkable. Maybe something to build on. He obviously ran completely out of gas late, which is why most Players start out in Short-Season Leagues. Even for Guys who Played from Little League to College, the length of the Full Season Schedule is grueling. A case could be made that should have been easier to deal with when Michael Jordan gave it a shot than Tebow coming from Football with so few Games. Being “on” for 5 or 6 straight months is emotionally and physically draining for someone who’s never done it.
Look. Baseball is not Christmans, and prospects are not presents that have to be unwrapped immediately.
That he is a top prospect is a non-issue. You don’t promote players solely on talent and projections. You promote them when they are ready. In this case, we are talking about a kid who has already been skipped several levels. In the process, he has held his own, but not excelled. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it does not diminish his talent level or his future as a star.
As for his stats, you’re cherry-picking. I could just as easily say that without his hot July, his slash line would be .249/.305/.326/.631. So which carries more weight? Neither one. Without watching him every day, neither one of us knows why he got hot in July, or why he slowed down in August. You say its the HBPs. Thats one theory, and it may even be right. Or maybe its simply the adjustments that go on during the course of a season. Maybe he moved closer to the plate in July in order to get better plate coverage on outside pitches. And maybe the league figured him out in August and started pitching him inside in order to a) tie him up, and/or b) move him off of the plate. Thats how baseball works. Or maybe he mastered this level in July and simply wore down in August in his first year of full-season ball. We don’t know.
His entire body of work says he did fine for a youngster who was pushed to this level very quickly, but not great overall. And it doesn’t scream that he earned a promotion. He is physically smallish and if he went back to Columbia, he would still be one of the youngest players in that league, let alone St Lucie. If he went to St Lucie, he”d also be moving to a more pitcher friendly field and league. PSL also has an insane number of rainouts every year, leading to an insane number of double-headers, sometimes three or four in one week. Are you going to bench your young star for that may games because he is smaller and less durable? Or are you going to play him 14 innings on those nights and wear him out?
As for other players, you seem to have misread what I said. those other players are a not a factor in this equation. The players I mentioned don’t need to “earn” any promotions because I’m not promoting them – they’re already in St Lucie.
And no one needs to move to make room for him because St Lucie and Binghamton have more openings than players who can competently fill them.
So player movement is not the issue, here, either.
The issue is Gimenez’ readiness.
Lastly, anything and everything we see and think right now could go right in the garbage can if he shows up in camp10-15 pounds heavier and starts hitting the ball harder. But right now, he is small, young, and doesn’t drive the ball much. And he’s already been skipped multiple levels, anyway. Those characteristics suggest that a couple of months in Columbia would be the wiser approach to take with him.
Obviously ran out of gas? Maybe he ran out of gas. But no, its not obvious. It would be obvious if he’d been hitting all year long.
But he wasn’t. He hit poorly before the hot streak, and he hit poorly after the hot streak. There’s absolutely no way to know or gauge or why he got hot, or why he went back in the tank. He’s a unique case and nothing, absolutely nothing is ‘obvious’ with him. Everything is new ground and uncharted territory.
Well, we can start with his having gone to the Coaches while he was still hot and telling them he wasn’t used to playing every day and it was wearing on him.
Baseball is not Christmas, and prospects are not presents that have to be unwrapped immediately.
He could be promoted. That doesn’t mean he should be. Because he is a top prospect, you take good care of him and promote him when he’s ready, and not just because he is talented.
As for his stats, cherry-picking doesn’t work in this case.
I could just as easily turn it around and say that other than his hot July, his slash line for the season would be .249/.305/.326/.631. So which carries more weight? Neither one. Without watching him every day, neither one of us knows why he got hot in July, or why he slowed down in August. You say its the HBPs. Thats one theory, and it may even be right. Or maybe he mastered this level in July and simply wore down in August in his first year of full-season ball. Or maybe its simply the adjustments that go on during the course of a season. Maybe he moved closer to the plate in July in order to get better plate coverage on outside pitches. Then the league figured him out and started pitching him inside in August in order to tie him up, and/or move him off of the plate. We don’t know.
But he’s only 18, he’s already been skipped past all the short-season levels, and is way ahead of his schedule already. There’s nothing to lose by sending him back for 2 or 3 months and letting him grow into his status. On the other hand, continuing to force-feed him upwards until he hits a wall or is overmatched could potentially be detrimental.
Uh-huh. And what happened in April? And May? And June?
I considered the adjustment theory last night as I noticed how many walks he had in August alone, plus the HBP, plus the fact that he was the team’s best player, and I wonder if they started throwing him balls and he was chasing and making weak contact…
You’re right that I have no answer for July. But, if we throw out both his hottest and coldest month as two extremes, it’s still a nice season.
Oh, maybe anything from not having Played in over a decade to, hey. Maybe we go with what the Coaches themselves said that they were more concerned with working on specific skillsets than immediate results.
Or we could go with your theory that you know Baseball better than them.
I never said I know more than the coaches. If you personally know the coaches, then please, tell us more about what the coaches said. But if you’re taking a random comment or sound bite and re-interpreting it as the entire evaluation on his entire body of work, then that doesn’t work. Because multiple people in the organization have said multiple things.
Let’s get one thing straight: I’m not trashing Tebow, and I’m not making any representations about what he is or isn’t. And if you read my entire posts, you’d see that. So you don’t need to take it personally. Saying that he under-performed for that level isn’t a criticism, and it isn’t unfair. Its the reality of the results. Any reasons are subject to interpretation and speculation. And thats all you’re doing: interpreting and speculating.
The simple fact is that Tebow is uncharted territory. There’s no way to know what his first year means, why he did well or didn’t do well, or what he might do moving forward. Thats why I disagree with characterizing what he did as remarkable. And I would disagree just as strongly with someone who characterized it as poor.
Its an experiment, and he’s a work in progress. There’s no precedent for this, so there’s no barometer against which to judge it.
He did a nice job. No arguments there. But I’d like to see him get stronger and drive the ball more before sending him to FSL where there are almost no [other] teenagers, and a good number of players who will be 24 and 25 and he might simply be physically over-matched.
Gimenez was a doubles machine with a very high contact rate before this 3-level jump. I’m not expecting him to hit .350 or slug .520 at this level. But I’d like to see him at least start to resemble that type of hitter a little more before moving him up again. (Say, .290+ with at least 5 or 6 extra-base hits per month and reduce his K rate to 15% or lower).